Exclusive interview with Dotswap: Pure coin issuance ends here, Bitcoin ecosystem needs a new narrative

Whether it is UniSat or CAT Protocol (CAT20), Chinese projects in the Bitcoin ecosystem always give people a sense of hermit masters like "sweeping monks". They work silently, innovate continuously, and always walk at the forefront of Bitcoin ecosystem technology. Compared with Western projects, they always appear to be more low-key.

Dotswap is also such a project. From BRC-20, ARC-20 to Rune, and then to CAT20, they focus on the Swap track, and gradually establish their own reputation through repeated technical iterations and innovations. After the birth of CAT20, Dotswap updated CAT20's casting tools, Swap, LP pool at a very fast speed, and even launched CAT20's order book DEX before UniSat. It supports trustless pending buy and sell orders, shares liquidity with Swap, and supports partial matching of pending orders.

What makes Dotswap always respond to market trends in the first place, and what makes them persist until Fractal and CAT20 are born and become famous all over the world? Curious about these questions, BlockBeats interviewed Lin, co-founder and CEO of Dotswap. In addition to the story behind Dotswap, Lin also shared with us many of his insights on the present and future of the Bitcoin ecosystem.

After years of accumulation, does BSV power feed back to the Bitcoin ecosystem?

BlockBeats: Does the Dotswap team have experience in the BSV ecosystem like UniSat and CAT20? If so, how did this experience help the birth and development of Dotswap?

Lin：Yes, we also have experience in the BSV ecosystem. Many developers in the BSV ecosystem, including us, have never left the Bitcoin circle. Although BSV and the Bitcoin mainnet are two different ecosystems, they are both based on UTXO. When new things and opportunities come, based on the understanding of the UTXO ecosystem, you will be faster and more sensitive than others to enter the game.

We always keep an eye on all innovative opportunities in the UTXO architecture. After BRC-20 came out, we saw that everyone was doing a pending order market, but no one was doing Swap. In the Ethereum ecosystem, Swap has long been proven to be a very important infrastructure and has made great progress, so we started to do this.

BlockBeats: From BRC-20, ARC-20 to Runes, and then to CAT20, Dotswap always follows up on the new technical hotspots of the Bitcoin ecosystem very quickly. How does the team iterate?

Lin: We must thank our excellent team. They are a group of engineers who love the UTXO model very much. This love makes our team have a strong self-drive, so that we treat every product update as quickly as possible and help users save costs as much as possible.

Our team members have a rich understanding and cognition of the technology stack and a pragmatic attitude. Basically, when we release the "Coming Soon" message, the new feature is launched within a week.

BlockBeats: There is an interesting saying that "BSV developers are the backbone of the Bitcoin ecosystem". What do you think of this statement?

Lin: I dare not say that they are the backbone, it is an exaggeration. I can only say that BSV developers have accumulated experience in the BSV ecosystem and will run faster than others. Although BSV developers have advantages, as the elegance of the UTXO architecture is discovered by more people and more people are willing to invest energy in research, this advantage may be quickly wiped out.

In the current Bitcoin ecosystem, we can also see many developers with non-BSV backgrounds, such as OKX and Magic Eden. I think they are the backbone.

How do you view the present and future of Fractal and CAT20?

After Fractal and CAT20 were launched, Dotswap first quickly launched the casting tool for CAT20, and then launched the Swap for CAT20. These two important functional updates have gained Dotswap a lot of new users and made Dotswap a very important part of the Fractal ecosystem. So, what does Lin think about the present and future of Fractal and CAT20?

BlockBeats: After CAT20, BRC-20 and runes were launched on Fractal, Fractal fell into a relatively quiet stage, and the price of $FB was also tepid. Many people think that Fractal has been unable to innovate gameplay and has fallen into a bottleneck. What do you think?

Lin: Fractal has only been online for more than a month. Whether it is the attention, computing power or the activity of on-chain transactions, the performance in these aspects has been very good in just over a month. I think it has exceeded my initial expectations. In addition, many developers have "brought their own dry food" to the Fractal ecosystem for construction. In the future, there will definitely be a lot of innovations, but it just takes more time. For these small teams that "brought their own dry food" and have no capital support, they need time and tolerance. Especially for CAT20 and even the entire CAT protocol, there are still some thresholds to cross to build applications on it.

But in fact, the CAT protocol has been moving forward. CAT721 is about to come out. The gameplay of the first project is to lock a certain number of tokens for a period of time to cast. This kind of innovation achieved by contracts is completely invisible in BRC-20 or Runes on the main network.

The criterion for judging the success of technological innovation may be a short-term surge in the price of coins, but the value of technological innovation cannot necessarily be reflected by a short-term surge in the price of coins. The only thing that can be determined is that after a long period of accumulation, the quantitative change of technological innovation will definitely undergo a qualitative change. We cannot overestimate the short-term impact of technological innovation, nor can we underestimate the long-term effect of technological innovation.

BlockBeats: CAT20 may still be just "a new BRC-20/rune" in the eyes of many players, and it cannot be compared with last year's BRC-20 in terms of narrative. How do you think CAT20 can change the views of these players?

Lin: I don't think there is any need to try to change anyone's opinion. If everyone thinks something is good as soon as it is born, it is indeed a "heavenly start", then who will everyone who buys it sell their holdings to later? In fact, we still have to go back to the construction of the protocol itself, and strive to use the advantageous technology to create newer and more interesting applications to attract more mainstream users. Under the leadership of good ecological projects, everyone will naturally accept and understand.

Everyone can have their own opinions, but I believe that the protocols and applications that have emerged after sufficient market competition will have strong appeal and advantages. The Bitcoin ecosystem must have such different opinions, or competition. In such competition, those who believe can get full rewards, and Bitcoin will continue to grow in competition.

But from my personal point of view, I think CAT Protocol is a groundbreaking thing that is completely different from Layer 2. It is a smart contract system based on miners and a layer of consensus. Why I don’t think that BRC-20 is "completely groundbreaking" is because these actually had similar practices on platforms such as Omni and Counterparty a long time ago, and the smart contract system based on miner verification, that is, CAT, can save the state in Bitcoin transactions, laying the foundation for more interesting smart contract innovation applications.

It's just that at this stage, more infrastructure is still needed to make CAT more useful. We have made a DEX for CAT20, and UniSat has also done it, and UniSat wallet support for CAT20 has just been launched. The infrastructure needs to be improved for some time before there can be more follow-up development.

BlockBeats: Some players also think that UniSat is not proactive enough in Fractal's marketing, and that directly pulling $CAT to create a wealth effect can make Fractal and CAT20 out of the circle. What do you think of this view?

Lin: Different groups have different expectations for CAT20. Some people hope that $CAT will rise, some hope that $CAT can have more value besides the direct reflection of the price increase, and some hope for the overall success of CAT Protocol.

If we set the goal to attract more developers and make the CAT and Fractal ecosystems flourish with rich applications, then I think it is very appropriate for UniSat to seriously support developers and not over-create excessive market expectations. The price increase that everyone wants to see will eventually come with the richness and prosperity of ecological applications. I regard $CAT as the embodiment and tokenization of the entire CAT Protocol brand itself.

BlockBeats: After the birth of Fractal and CAT20, some people say that Dotswap is the "biggest winner". What do you think? In what aspects will Dotswap grow with Fractal?

Lin: We emphasize "fast", just like "First is first" on Ordinals, and the same is true for product development. Sometimes we may lag behind some competitors in product experience because of "fast", but we will iterate immediately afterwards. When something new like CAT20 comes out, users need something useful first. We will try our best to provide what everyone needs.

We are definitely inseparable from Fractal, complement each other, and grow together. Good applications will bring users to the ecosystem, and the prosperity of different types of applications in the ecosystem will benefit all types of applications. For example, CAT20 has been lacking wallet support, and we are focused on Swap. After UniSat fills this gap, everyone can directly merge UTXO through the wallet, so that the constraints of the size of a single transaction are eliminated when trading on our platform.

How do you view the present and future of the Bitcoin mainnet?

OP_CAT's resurrection may be one of the biggest narratives in this round of Bitcoin ecology, but will it really happen in this round of bull market? CEXs seem to lack enthusiasm for listing rune assets. Has the narrative of "issuing coins on Bitcoin" reached its ceiling? If OP_CAT is really successfully resurrected, what huge changes will it bring to the Bitcoin ecology? Lin shared his views on these issues with us.

BlockBeats: From BRC-20 to runes, has the novelty of the asset issuance narrative on Bitcoin, or the value of the asset issuance narrative, been basically explored?

Lin: This view is quite interesting. Ethereum and Solana can also issue coins, and the cost of issuing coins is also very low. The space for the value narrative itself is actually quite limited just by issuing coins. Launch a new protocol, and then issue the coin, and everyone can speculate. After such a long time, the player groups that can be covered by this model have basically been covered. If we want more new people to come in, then we must have a new narrative, and the consensus that can be gathered by simply issuing coins may end here.

CAT20 has added states, smart contracts, and programmability, which are great innovations. However, how will these innovations ultimately be reflected in the narrative that users can pay for? This still needs to be observed, and we still need to think about what problems we can solve with these innovations and what benefits we can bring to users.

BlockBeats: Do you think that the narrative value of issuing coins has been almost mined, and is it the reason why CEXs lack interest in listing rune assets? Or is it because the transaction of runes is more like NFT, and the market value before listing on CEX has not undergone sufficient liquidity tests?

Lin: I can’t give a conclusion, because I can’t understand the considerations and interests of CEXs, but I can make some guesses on this issue.

CEXs have their own user groups. CEXs must consider whether listing a new coin can bring more income, and if I don’t list a new coin in a certain sector/concept, will my user group go to other CEXs? Judging from these perspectives, whether runes can be accepted by CEXs is a matter of opinion. Of course, in addition to these perspectives, it is very likely that CEXs have other considerations, and it is also very likely that these are not the reasons why they are not enthusiastic about runes. Only CEXs themselves know the answer.

BlockBeats: Do you think OP_CAT can be successfully revived in this round of bull market? There is a view that the discussion about the resurrection of OP_CAT is far less than the dispute over the size of blocks in the past. It may be that when the community is discussing this issue head-on, we can really see the signs of OP_CAT's resurrection. What do you think?

Lin: This view may be correct. We can only prepare for various possibilities, rather than hoping that OP_CAT will be revived at some point in the future.

As for whether OP_CAT can be successfully revived, we can ask the developers of Bitcoin Core what conditions must be met to dispel your concerns and allow you to support the resurrection of OP_CAT? If there is such a more direct communication, I think this problem will be easier to solve. Even if their answer is "world peace", it is better than now that we are not very clear about their concerns.

BlockBeats: If CAT20 can achieve great success on Fractal, what impact will it have on the resurrection of OP_CAT on the mainnet?

Lin: I think the change starts from the demand side and definitely not from the supply side. If OP_CAT can eventually emerge in a large number of applications on Fractal, it proves that there are a large number of scenario needs, and the voices on the Bitcoin mainnet calling for meeting these needs will become louder and louder. In this case, in fact, Bitcoin must need OP_CAT, otherwise how can Bitcoin miners continue?

Otherwise, we can only listen to the "Bitcoin authority", and what Bitcoin needs or does not need depends entirely on their opinions. The resurrection of OP_CAT itself is not a technical issue, but a "political issue".

In addition, if CAT20 can achieve such great success on Fractal, do we still need support from the mainnet? In other words, success itself can prove the value independence of CAT20, and the lack of support from the Bitcoin mainnet will not discount the value of CAT20 or even Fractal. Of course, if the Bitcoin mainnet really supports OP_CAT one day, we will all be happy to see it.

BlockBeats: If OP_CAT is resurrected, what huge changes will occur in the narrative of Bitcoin in this round of bull market? What potential huge opportunities will there be?

Lin: The resurrection of OP_CAT is just a small step, because OP_CAT alone is still not enough for many larger ideas. But if OP_CAT is available, trustless cross-chain bridges may be able to be achieved, perhaps using zk Verify or other technologies, and there will be many more opportunities like this.

The Future Development of Dotswap

BlockBeats: Do you think Dotswap has the potential to become Uniswap on Bitcoin? For Dotswap, what is the product moat?

Lin: We certainly hope to become an important infrastructure of the Bitcoin ecosystem and reach the height of Uniswap. To achieve this goal, we will always insist on making our own products and providing our services well. We have also opened our API, hoping that more projects can contact us and reach cooperation.

For us, we think there is no so-called product moat, or rather, innovation is our moat. The only thing we can do is that once a new opportunity arises, we can capture it and take action as soon as possible, and try to seize every opportunity to make products that everyone likes, and constantly meet the latest needs of users, so as to form our reputation and brand.

BlockBeats: What other innovations with Bitcoin characteristics will Dotswap bring?

Lin: As for making good use of the UTXO model, making good use of the multiple inputs and multiple outputs in the UTXO transaction, and then doing a completely trustless Swap, we are confident that we can realize this soon. This should be a height that no competitor can reach at present, and it is also a very valuable and meaningful thing for us.

BlockBeats: Dotswap currently has a platform coin on Rune. Will you consider migrating to CAT20 or a newer FT protocol?

Lin: We will continue to observe the stability, development and market reaction of these protocols. At this stage, it is not a good thing to toss the platform coin around. The value of the platform coin lies in making the product itself better and helping the FT protocols and even the entire ecosystem of the Bitcoin ecosystem to develop better, rather than depending on which protocol the platform coin exists on.

If the migration of platform coins can bring more benefits to our coin holders, users and even products, we will definitely do it. But no one can predict what will happen in the future. We can only say that we will always consider this issue from the perspective of coin holders, users and even products.